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  Views: 121497Topic:: «Radmin v3 Beta - Remove how to tray icon» on forum: Famatech Beta Testing
#61
I use EWIDO anti-malware and if you know how to exclude radmin then I would interested.

I don't agree with your approach to IT mgmt, our auditors IT guy has a similar approach and they think the guy is an a-hole.

But if you need to be sneaky, you could do this:

Install new radmin unhidden on whatever port you choose.
install radmin2.2 on a different port, hidden.

use 3.0 to openly manage users pc's. use 2.2 when being sneaky. They know you are using something, just hiding the icon will only fool the really stupid. If they see you using an unhidden radmin, they probably won't even suspect the hidden one even exists, and therefore won't look further.
You could even catch them at killing the icon, and tell them that killing the icon only removes it from their view.

with the promised backward compatibility of the client, you could just create another folder for sneaky connections.
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#62
Quote
Eric Mockler wrote:
If you were required to comply with SEC regulations or Sarbanes Oxley you would see the problem with a single users ability to surreptitiously monitor ANY user.

Quote
Gavin Nel wrote:
You do know about security, filtering and Passwords don't you ANY USER cannot monitor, the ADMIN can and if you have not included this in your employment contracts, thats your problem...... Not ours.

Gavin,
I think you are missing Eric's point. From the perspective of regulations he mentions, "administrators" are just other users whose actions must be audited and justified. They happen to be users to whom the organization has has delegated special responsibilities, but they are not above the law and neither is the CEO when it comes to Sarbanes-Oxley.

Not accusing anyone but there are "administrators" who abuse their powers. And, given the power to secretly monitor any user including those dealing with sensitive financial information some might take advantage of it. There should be no secret monitoring. Be up front about it.

Better yet, design appropriate audit trails. Don't rely on peeping.
Jim
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#63
Quote
Gavin,
I think you are missing Eric's point. From the perspective of regulations he mentions, "administrators" are just other users whose actions must be audited and justified. They happen to be users to whom the organization has has delegated special responsibilities, but they are not above the law and neither is the CEO when it comes to Sarbanes-Oxley.

Not accusing anyone but there are "administrators" who abuse their powers. And, given the power to secretly monitor any user including those dealing with sensitive financial information some might take advantage of it. There should be no secret monitoring. Be up front about it.

Better yet, design appropriate audit trails. Don't rely on peeping.
Jim


Jim

That is easy to fix with the Ask User Permission, that is still not give a reason to not hide the Tray Icon and give users the option to close, change password or worse. Not to mention the Use Event Log and Use Logfile. Easy to use to your advantage if you know what program your corporation is using for Remote Support.
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#64
[/CODE][/QUOTE]

Jim

That is easy to fix with the Ask User Permission, that iss still not give a reason to not hide the Tray Icon and give users the option to close, change password or worse. Easy to use to your advantage if you know what program your corporation is using for Remote Support.
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#65
[/CODE][/QUOTE]

Jim

That is easy to fix with the Ask User Permission, that iss still not give a reason to not hide the Tray Icon and give users the option to close, change password or worse. Easy to use to your advantage if you know what program your corporation is using for Remote Support.
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#66
Quote
Gavin Nel wrote:
That is easy to fix with the Ask User Permission, that is still not give a reason to not hide the Tray Icon and give users the option to close, change password or worse. Not to mention the Use Event Log and Use Logfile

I presume all these complaints about users being able to use the tray icon to change things are folks whose users all run as local Admin (Power Users and below can't change anything).

Also, if I were auditing your organization, it could go something like this:

Me: "Is there any way a user, including an administrator, can watch the screen a user without their knowledge?"

You: "No. We use RAdmin for support but we have it set up to ask the user's permission..." smile:D

Me: "Can you remotely modify a user's registry?"

You: "Well, yes, the tool allows "Connect to remote registry..."

Me: "What would happen if you remotely connected to a user's registry, navigated to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\RAdmin\v3.0\Server\Parameters, and modified the value for AskUser to zero, and then, using remote computer management, restarted rserver3.exe?" smile:o

You: "Gee, I'd be able to start a viewing the user's screen, even record it with camstudio, without the user's having any way of finding out." smile:oops:

(audit starts going down hill from there...)
Jim
DISCLAIMER: This is NOT indended to be a flame. It is an argument.
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#67
If the person who installs the RADMIN utility is the IT Admin, then they should know if they are meeting compliance for S/OX by the installation of the utility in the first place. That is their job. If it goes against their guidelines, then other tools should be used.

If S/OX compliance is the best example of why the Hide Tray Icon optin should be removed, then it's a weak example. The use of RADMIN in the first place on such a system is questionable, based on Jim's example above (which I thought was a very well-thought-out argument by the way!).

Leave the option to make the icon hidden for those of us who have the business need to keep it hidden, and for those who want to have the tray icon visible, getting their wish is just a check-mark away.

People who worry about someone hacking their system and installing RADMIN to spy on them remotely have more to worry about than just invasion of privacy via RADMIN. They would have had to have been open to hacking in the first place, and in that scenario, all of their personal data is no longer private.

Their system could also be turned into a zombie for large scale network attacks ala DDOS etc, in which case future courts *may* hold the zombie machine's owner responsible for lack of security.
David Matson
Consultant, Freelance Writer, Product Reviewer
Moderator at MobilitySite, GPS Tuner
Microsoft MVP Mobile Devices - Testing
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#68
There is no need for us to even continue this thread. Famatech must think this a dead issue as they haven't responded in several weeks. We are all in IT, so what do we do if something doesn't do what we want??? That's right we go out and find an app that can do it. So I'm still going to keep Radmin but I found an app that will hide tray icons FOREVER!! Just use google and you too can find it. So thank you Famatech for the Radmin beta as I await for the release of the final version. Also thank you for making me look for alternate means to do what
(i guess I should say it) you refuse/can't do.
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#69
Jim

Also, if I were auditing your organization, it could go something like this:

Me: "Is there any way a user, including an administrator, can watch the screen a user without their knowledge?"

You: "No. We use RAdmin for support but we have it set up to ask the user's permission..."

Me: "Can you hide the Tray Icon?"

You: Yes using ...., .... or .......

(audit starts going down hill from there...)

So I guess RAdmin is Dead then ........and all remote support products are Dead then?? All of the other products (you know who they are) can hide the icon or use one of the Tray Icon Hiders. smile:|
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#70
Quote
Da GMan wrote:
Me: "Can you hide the Tray Icon?"

You: Yes using ...., .... or .......

(audit starts going down hill from there...)


My assumption, too, was that the tray icon could be hidden. I could probably design a simple audit system using available tools on NT based systems that would get past the secrecy problem.

There seem to be two separate but probably overlapping camps here:

1. I want to hide the tray icon so my users can't play with the server settings (and my un-trustworty users have to run with Administrator rights).

2. I need to monitor my users by viewing their screens without them knowing it.

I wonder how the population of dissatisfied users breaks down into these.

As for myself, I don't much care either way. My daughter is very fussy about the real estate in her try and would prefer that the icon be hidden. With 2.2 I would hide hers but leave the other ones visible.

I know how to teach my ativirus and spyware software to ignore it --- it's pretty easy. The easy way with NAV 06 is to let it "eat" RAdmin on the first scan, then go back and find it in the quarantine. When it is restore the SW asks do you want ignore <their name for the problemware> in the future? You just say yes.
Jim
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#71
#1) I really don't give a ***** if you think it is bad policy to secretly monitor users, we do it here under direction from our CEO. It is completely legal in the US to monitor your users in any fashion you want whether that is via camera, physically standing over their shoulder or recording their calls. You have no privacy rights whatsoever as an employee in the United States, anything you do at work is subject to monitoring by your employer.

#2) This whole NAV thing is a farse. It is very easy to make NAV or Mcaffee ignore Radmin, there is no reason to criple the product.

#3) There are all kind of Radmin products out there today with hide tray icon or no tray icon at all that are NOT detected by these programs, this should be Radmin's line of reasoning to the NAV companies "If you aren't going to detect them you can't detect us for the same thing."

I.e.

Microsoft Remote Assistance
Altiris Carbon Copy (HUGELY popular program and has hide tray)
Win TightVNC
Beyond Remote

Hell actually i am having an impossible time finding other Radmin programs where you CANT hide the tray icon !

Radmin is the only one i've found so far .. change this back.




Altiris Carbon Copy
Microsoft Remote Support
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#72
If Symantec is the "controlling authority" for this decision, then do as Symantec does with their own enterprise-level product management ...

Corporate SAV has
1) Hide Icon;
2) Users can't make setting changes; and
3) Users can't uninstall without a password
installation options at server install time.

From an IT point of view, that's desirable. And in no less a way so would having a user's RAdmin client be managed.
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#73
I tend to agree with the majority of those who have posted here - I provide support to over 1000 PC's & 120+ Servers, supporting 3600+ users within our organisation and use RAdmin to maintain Server & Desktop enviroments.

Hiding the Taskbar Icon is a 'must have' for our organisation to ensure that PC's etc. can be accessed when & if we require. I don't need users to have the ability to hinder our support role by 'disabling' features or denying control of the desktop of any PC they feel the need to tamper with.

The role of RAdmin within our organisation is to enable our tech's to SUPPORT these desktops. Hence the name RAdmin or 'Remote ADMINISTRATOR'.

To me, this change will only increase the cost of IT support to the company, as it allows for a scenario to take place where we have to introduce more steps into the resolution path. More steps, such as a phone call to talk a user through enabling RAdmin again for instance, cost more time, hence more money.

I too would support a PASSWORD protected icon as opposed to NO icon at all - But I would prefer it more if, in future, I was given the choice to decide which would benifit my organisation more.

Geoff Craig
JB HI-FI Group PTY LTD
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#74
I won't be purchasing unless I can hide the tray icon.
I can't even to begin to evaluate the product unless this is a possibility
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#75
Famatech has been really quiet lately or at least it seems the last few weeks. I guess with the "next" release of the beta due in June (today) we SHOULD find out soon.

Disclaimer: Soon has been known to last for years here so please take it with a grain of sale.
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#76
I will not be upgrading the computers in my company until the hide icon option is put back in. We need to be able to secretly monitor our employees from time to time. We run a version of Symantec Anti Virus that does not detect Radmin at all never has and probably never will.
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#77
Speaking for myself, I'm delighted that there's no longer a way to hide the icon. I don't particularly like the idea of RAdmin being used as a "spy" or "monitor" program.

I totally understand the needs of admins who don't want people messing with the settings, but I think ALL users should have the opportunity to see if someone is monitoring their session or not.

Honestly, if you don't like it, get other software. I totally support Famatech in this.
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#78
Quote
I will not be upgrading the computers in my company until the hide icon option is put back in.


Well, they are not putting it back in, so you might as well move on.
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#79
Maybe if you complain enough they will put it in.
Not in this forum, because I don't think they read it. You have to visit them in person. ACtually you have to get a job there, and write the ***** thing yourself....
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#80
I need the ability to hide the tray icon as well. Add me to the list.

I have other remote software running where users CAN see the tray icon and they DO shut it down, either by screwing around or on purpose. When they call with problems and IT can't connect to their PC, it's amusing to hear them stammer and try to explain why.

What nobody has touched on yet: user PCs are NOT PRIVATE in corporations these days. Your Email and actions ARE monitored. The corporation reserved the right to show the icon to the user if they wish. This isn't a Famatech decision.
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