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  Views: 121691Topic:: «Radmin v3 Beta - Remove how to tray icon» on forum: Famatech Beta Testing
#41
Quote
Kecin Schwartz wrote:
No, this wouldn't be good enough for us. All of our users have local admin rights to their workstations.

If that is the case, then with 2.2 you are relying on security through obscurity. All they have to do flip a bit in the registry and restart the service to see the tray icon. Heck, they can run r_server/setup form the command line!

If you are "monitoring" them without their knowledge, I have a philosophical problem with that but OK, let's just be practical. There's not much you can force on people who have Admin unless you hide it, which isn't very secure.
Jim
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#42
Quote
Kecin Schwartz wrote:
Roman, it's not hiding the tray icon that concerns me, but we can't have our users changing security settings like rights, passwords etc. You can leave the icon there, just give us a way to prohibit end users from changing anything.

You just stated that your users run as Admin. If you are concerned about them manipulating radmin via they tray icon, why aren't you concerned about them typing
C:>r_server /setup ?

This is not intended to be a flame, but I suppose it is an argument...
Best,
Jim
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#43
[/QUOTE]You just stated that your users run as Admin. If you are concerned about them manipulating radmin via they tray icon, why aren't you concerned about them typing
C:>r_server /setup ?
[QUOTE]


Well Correct GPO settings could prevent that. Won't touch something unless it's a shiny something right infront of them. And that's what the tray icon is, Something shiny and right in their faces. It don't even go away when the station is locked. So the option to try and play with it or try and disable is more likly to happen.
--------------
...I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance by switching to Gia...
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#44
From the lack of replies from Famatech I'm reading that they don't care that is probably many of our #1 issue.

I think if we took a poll most everyone would rather have radmin be picked up by NAV (since we can indeed tell NAV to not see it) and have our hidden tray icon back.

There is just _NO_ reason to force a tray icon, my users have an incredibly cluttered task bar as it is. There are all kinds of remote control programs that hide their tray icon and yet nav doesn't pick them up (Altiris anyone ??)

Please, please, please put the option of a hidden tray icon back in even if it is a backdoor registry setting.
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#45
I don't think the hidden tray issue is as big as you may believe it is. I would tend to think 7 (if not smile8) out of 10 people don't care either way.
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#46
Mark,

I think you are wrong, look at the sheer number of DIFFERENT people in this thread posting about this.

Anyone who runs an IT department and uses Radmin is going to hate the icon, people that use it for personal use may not care.

#1) It causes unnecessary clutter, there is no reason for the icon to be there, desktops are oversaturated with icons as it is any profesional IT shop wants to keep their desktops clean.

#2) There are legitamate monitoring needs of corporate IT departments to be able to monitor users at the request of management without those users being aware.

#3) A number of remote admin programs already exist and do not have icons, this is just an unnecessary evil of the new Radmin.

#4) Just because a user has local admin access does not imply they should be able to turn support tools off. Even Symantec knows better and password protects their icon.

Radmin is a very good tools, we have 3 site licenses of it, and I would happily pay to upgrade to v3. However we will not be upgrading if v3 is released with this mandatory icon.
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#47
Roman

I'm confused, you released the screenshots showing this feature.

See http://www.radmin.com/images/screenshots/rad/rad30b_Server_Options.jpg

[URL=http://www.radmin.com/images/screenshots/rad/rad30b_Server_Options.jpg]Screenshot[/URL]
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#48
But you promised......

See your own screenshots

[URL=http://www.radmin.com/images/screenshots/rad/rad30b_Server_Options.jpg]http://www.radmin.com/images/screenshots/rad/rad30b_Server_Options.jpg[/URL]
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#49
Svetlana Yastrebova
Quote
The tray icon cannot be disabled because of security reasons.


Please define the specific reasons that Famatech decided to disable this feature.

Roman Makarov
Quote
Kecin, could you please describe in detailes why Hide Tray Icon feature is so important to your support.

1.) Well, for starters, "non-administrative" end-users do not need to know what "administrative" software tools are loaded on to their machine.
2.) For the purposes of the father monitoring his children's internet access, the children also do not need to know ever time the parent is monitoring them.
3.) If the Anti-Virus vendors state that the "hide" Tray Icon option must be removed in order to be absolved of "malware" labeling , then they can go jump in a lake. The key to this problem is to provide your paying users with a Step-by-step process on how they can program their Anti-Virus (or Anti-Spyware) software so that it excludes RADMIN from their scans.
4.) Even if you decide to anger the majority of your customers by removing the "hide" function, then if are truly worried about "security" as Svetlana indicates in the first quote above, then you would password protect the icon to prevent users from accessing the control panel and changing any options.
David Matson
Consultant, Freelance Writer, Product Reviewer
Moderator at MobilitySite, GPS Tuner
Microsoft MVP Mobile Devices - Testing
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#50
Dmitry Kurashev
Quote
We have disabled 'disable tray icon' option because of the security and privacy reasons.

Could you please be more specific Dmitry?

You advertise that RADMIN creates secure connections between the server and client. Surely you are not meaning to infer that the connection is no longer secure?

Likewise, it is a well-known fact that most corporations (the bulk of your paying clients) actively state to their employees that they have no right to privacy on work computers, so "privacy" should not even be an issue to be concerned about. My corporation has stickers on every monitor and computer that state: "Restricted to official company business, and subject to being monitored at any time"

If you are worried about hackers who have found a way to use your application as part of their toolkit for hijaaking other computers, then you need to find a way to stop them without handicapping the rest of your paying customers.
David Matson
Consultant, Freelance Writer, Product Reviewer
Moderator at MobilitySite, GPS Tuner
Microsoft MVP Mobile Devices - Testing
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#51
Quote
jnugent wrote:
f that is the case, then with 2.2 you are relying on security through obscurity. All they have to do flip a bit in the registry and restart the service to see the tray icon. Heck, they can run r_server/setup form the command line!

If you are "monitoring" them without their knowledge, I have a philosophical problem with that but OK, let's just be practical. There's not much you can force on people who have Admin unless you hide it, which isn't very secure. Jim



I know the users can change it. Fortunately I don't work in a school environment where kids are constantly looking to do anything they can to a computer. We're sort of going by the "out of sight, out of mind" form of security in that sense. Also, at each login, all the settings get restored by a registry import so it's not a major issue if they do happen to find it. I suppose we could still do that with version 3 to ensure the settings remain as we want them, but I would feel much more comfortable if we can lock it down.

And to answer the other question about stealth monitoring, absolutely not. The ask user permission flag is set at all times. We use this for a help desk tool, not to monitor our employees. That's our policy. On the other hand, in this country, it's the right of the company to keep tabs on their employees if they want.
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#52
You know, I wasn't going to post in this topic, but I now feel that I must. I don't know what the ratio is between those who must have the Hide Tray Icon feature and those who feel that feature should be removed among Famatech customers. What I do know is that there are those of us out here that couldn't care less. Count me in that group. And I suspect that the truth of the matter is that those who, like me, don't really care one way or the other, make up the majority of Famatech's customers. By the nature of their opinion, they would have no particular reason to post here and be represented.
Now I do have one customer that uses RAdmin to monitor her employees for improper internet browsing, and she uses the Hide Tray Icon feature. If the final version of RAdmin 3.0 doesn't include this feature, then I'll probably leave her running 2.2 and she'll never even know she didn't get an upgrade, since it's working fine for her now.
To me it is of far more importance to get a final release that has all of the promised features (multi-monitor support, Fast User Switching support, full-screen dos support, etc.) and, most importantly, backward compatibility with 2.x server. (I put this last as most important because, as I'm sure most of you agree, in the real world upgrades don't generally happen all at once, but rather in piecemeal stages.)

So there you have it. An opinion statement from a representative of those with no opinion. And for the record, I don't really care if the voice chat or text chat work either. (Though the Send Message option could be useful.)

smile;)
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#53
If the hide icon feature is enabled how would the general user know if radmin is installed? Maybe some leet haxor renames the service to slass or something that maybe looks like it's from windows. So the AV scanner would have to identify it as malware, just to be sure ANY and ALL users of their AV software are aware that Radmin is installed. If it can be hidden by IT, then it can be hidden by anyone and it is their responsibility to flag it.

THAT IS WHY" HIDE TRY ICON" IS NO LONGER A FEATURE.
And that is why this topic should be closed.

PLEASE IGNORE these requests, since they probably come from script kiddies and not IT depts. ALL you have to do is tell an employee "dont touch this, if you do you get no support" and they won't touch it.

Right now I don't have to worry about users screwing with radmin, it's the AV program that screws with radmin.
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#54
Eric said:
Quote
If the hide icon feature is enabled how would the general user know if radmin is installed? Maybe some leet haxor renames the service to slass or something that maybe looks like it's from windows. So the AV scanner would have to identify it as malware, just to be sure ANY and ALL users of their AV software are aware that Radmin is installed. If it can be hidden by IT, then it can be hidden by anyone and it is their responsibility to flag it.


RADMIN is short for Remote Administration. From this simple logic, if they have RADMIN is installed, then either they loaded it, or someone with admin capabilities on their computer loaded it. It's also entirely conceivable that their system was hacked, but the possibility of a hack installing this product should not be made into MY PROBLEM as an IT manager.

Similarly, since YOUR car could conceivably be stolen and used to commit vehicular manslaughter, the Motor Vehicle department for your state should revoke your license and have the local law enforcement take possession of your car. Right??

Or maybe we could agree that Famatech should be the ones to take responsibility for correcting this issue, not the end user. Maybe they should program the client/server to not be renamable. And do whatever else they need to do in order to prevent hackers from turning it into a dangerous vehicle, instead of forcing you to deal with the side-effects of hacking by burdening you with a fix that impedes your efficiency.

Just because you do not need the feature does not mean that others do not want this feature in a bad way.

Quote
PLEASE IGNORE these requests, since they probably come from script kiddies and not IT depts. ALL you have to do is tell an employee "dont touch this, if you do you get no support" and they won't touch it.

I AM from an IT department, and I can assure you that we need the "Hide" option. I can also guess from your approach on this topic that you are not from an IT department. At the very least, the whole "don't touch this... and they won't touch it" attitude is very naive, to say the least.

As for your AV problem, if it's finding RADMIN and complaining about a possible hack job, then it's doing exactly what I would want it to do. Notify the person in charge. If the person in charge is you, and you know the install is legit, then no problem!
David Matson
Consultant, Freelance Writer, Product Reviewer
Moderator at MobilitySite, GPS Tuner
Microsoft MVP Mobile Devices - Testing
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#55
Sounds like you need to perform Aggressive Luser Re-Education, since MY users do not delete programs, or stop services.

However, when a user is presented with "found malware raddll"
I expect them to click ok, as there are but a few whom I could ever hope to distinguish between "good" malware and "bad" malware.

Any remote control program that has the ability to hide itself from the user is considered a trojan/malware. I fail to see any correlation to motor vehicles????????

If you were required to comply with SEC regulations or Sarbanes Oxley you would see the problem with a single users ability to surreptitiously monitor ANY user.

Famatech is obviously aware of these points and has made the decision to remove the hiding feature, if only to remove itself from malware lists and gain credibility. This will increase their market by many more than the few who are complaining here, since those who were forced to avoid radmin2.2 will soon? be able to use 3.0.

The decision is made, and made the only way it could be made.
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#56
First off. yes if u hide the icon it could be considered malware or spyware. so what. its not hard to add it to the exclusions for virus scaneners.. since most businesses use a business form that runs through server anywayz...not that hard. id rather have the option there for me to use it or not.

2nd. off. to the person who says if u tell employees not to touch it or they dont get support. thats off the point. most remote is to make sure employees are behaving not only for supporting...2nd off if it is a school.....ha is all i can say....how many kids would listen to u if u said dont touch this. hell didnt ur mom ever tell u not to touch the stove because its hot....what did u do... u touched it..

just add the option there or better yet allow the icon to stay for like 5 minutes then it can disappear.
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#57
We need the "hide try icon" here too. I am IT responsable for a callcenter and all agent workstations get monitored by Radmin. So we can check if the agent is working or just hanging on phone and do some stupid browser games or else.

So it's a really important feature for us to hide the try icon because when the agent see how the color is changing he closes the browser.

I understand the problem with "Script Kiddies" but over here we need this feature, and without there is no reason to upgrade.

We will stay on RA 2.2

P.S. We know that normally monitoring at work is illegal (at least in switzerland), but we have it written in every contract for all our part time coworker.

Edit: Over here it would be enough when RAdmin could add a option like "Not change color when connecting" or something.
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#58
Eric Mockler

Anyone who has worked in a helpdesk more that 10 min knows that if it can be see it is played with, stopped, deleted or disabled. I'm sorry but if it was such a small thing why do all the other vendors give you such an option. Hell even Symantec give you the option, even in SAV corp the users icon can be hidden from the system tray.

I really don't buy that noone wants this feature, either that or everone else is wasting their time and money creating this option smile:?:
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#59
Quote
However, when a user is presented with "found malware raddll"
I expect them to click ok, as there are but a few whom I could ever hope to distinguish between "good" malware and "bad" malware.


Clearly if you can not exclude RAdmin from Malware/AV Scans you have not been on a helpdesk or an Administrator very long.

Quote
If you were required to comply with SEC regulations or Sarbanes Oxley you would see the problem with a single users ability to surreptitiously monitor ANY user.


You do know about security, filtering and Passwords don't you smile:?: ANY USER cannot monitor, the ADMIN can and if you have not included this in your employment contracts, thats your problem...... Not ours.
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#60
Eric,

Your comments are very childish, most people here are from various IT Departments, I am the IT Manager for mine, and like others I can assure Famatech that if the hide tray icon is not reinstated we will be changing products very soon.

It is a CRITICAL feature of the product for an IT Department, without it it is useless to us and many other IT departments.

In a corporate environment users need to be heavily restricted in what they can see and do, most EVERY other radmin product has a hide tray icon only Famatech is dropping theres.

Even Famatech's screenshots of V3 show the hide tray so the function is there somewhere.
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